CafeLitt 55: All the Shah's Men II

Fri 25 Jan 2008, 14:29, by , at Cafe Linda:1909 Rue Ste-Catherine Ouest,Montreal (Map)

Subject : All the Shah's Men : An American Coup and the Roots of Middle East Terror written by Stephen Kinzer

Presented by: Iman dayarian
Date: 31 Jan 2008

we continued the book of previous session more focused on Nationalization of the Oil. The discussion were whole the subject of Mosaddegh and if he have made any mistake.

Comments:

1) First of all, I thank Iman because of his mastery on the topic.2) I think this book is a superficial journalistic narration about the events lead to the coup and it lacks analytical explanations.3) Let me look at the coup from US foreign policy point of view during the cold war. I try to understand their attempts to overthrow Mosaddegh's government. Imagine a stubborn government appeared in Middle East and it did not accept to compromise with your close ally, United Kingdom. On the other hand, based on the British espionage network attempts, anarchy and chaos was the predominant portrait of internal circumstances of an undeveloped country in the southern borders of Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Communism threat, Oil, your superior geopolitical situation after World War II, and your chance to change the world political hegemony joined together and paved the way for intervene in the Oil dispute. In that era, for US, removing Communism threat was more important than freedom and democracy virtues. Also I confess that Kermit Roosevelt was an intelligent person and his persistency deserves admiration.4) I think it is better to avoid using "every", "each" and "all" to express our opinion about a society and its conditions, especially for public social behavior. It is a big mistake to assume that the citizens and inhabitants of our country are the people whom we know and our acquaintances. We have to consider that a great fraction of our population leaves in the rural regions and small cities and their concerns may be completely different from ours.5) Somebody said that "if the Oil nationalization movement continued …" I think nationalization of Oil was not a judicious and wisely work at that time and it could not be continued, because it was obvious that British colonizer government would not abandon its benefits and it imposed sanction against Mosaddegh's government. We should give attention that we did not have basic knowledge, technology and infrastructures to explore and exploit Oil, and also we did not have even an Oil tanker to export it. So without considering the realities and consequences, he and his partisans in the council decided to nationalize Oil industry, idealistically and ordinary people supported this decision, sentimentally.6) What is the relationship between IQ and social-political events and phenomena!?7) I agree with Mohammad in order to in politics we need more snake charmers than dragon killers! And I believe that politics has its own morality and this is an undeniable bitter fact!

X at Sat 2 Feb 2008

Thank you X , first of all I should mention that this could be a good way to continue the discussions and comments that are remained. 1)I should also mention my Acknowledgments for Iman and his complete detailed presentation that definitely take lots of his time.2) I am also agree that the book can't be Historical reference.3)Of course we should not expect that American Government (or any foreign government) try to do something for our profits.In farsi we said There is no cat who catch the mice for God bless. The criticism of that period , in my point of view, is more a Self-critic than a blame of Others! What the had done is for their own benefit.4)100% agree5) I am agree that if the movement had been proceeded,we had had much more difficulty and problems in oil industry and economy which influenced our juvenile developing and advancement process. I am agree that the act of Mossadegh movement were more sentimental that rational (like most of the others nationalistic movements),but the worthy fact is the constitution of the concept of "independency"(that sometimes exaggerated till a pathological delusion thesedays)and "self-confidence" of a society by "Mossadegh"'s.Although occurrence of a war( which was probable)might perished his heroic position, but never expire the values of these concepts. 6) I will think about it and answer if I found anything interesting.7) I agree too.

Pasha at Sun 3 Feb 2008

About us

CaféLitt is not a place; it is a gathering of minds. We are a group of mostly Persian young students, scholars and professionals who gather every Thursday evening around 19h00 to discuss various subjects and share different ideas, ranging vastly from history to science, from literature to fine arts. We started these gatherings on Jan 17th, 2006 with 5 people and have reached an average weekly audience of about 40 people. Each week, one of us takes the responsibility of presenting a topic for about an hour in a subject s/he is intimately familiar with or has an expertise in. Afterwards, the evening turns into a discussion forum and all members of the audience will have an opportunity to ask their question(s) and share their points of view.

Some new and exciting ideas were born out of CaféLitt sessions. We have started a series of monthly meetings called CaféCinema during which a movie is presented and discussed in some detail afterward. This year's program of CaféCinema revolves around the history of Iranian cinema. Some Cinema students hold these sessions (mainly conducted in English) on the last Sunday of each month.

Likewise, CaféLitt BookClub is an activity where people who like books decide to read a book each month and discuss it during a cozy Café session on the second Sunday of every month.

CaféTheatre is a series of semi-rehearsed sessions in which we select a play, divide the roles among different people and read the play from the text in front of an audience. Similar to other CaféLitt sessions, each CaféTheatre session will end with a discussion of that day's play.  

CaféScience and CaféPhilo are our plans for near future. The purpose of CaféScience is to provide a forum for the public discussion and understanding of all scientific findings and ideas, with an emphasis on new, interesting and publicly relevant topics. During CaféPhilo sessions, we will talk about philosophy, its history and all its related aspects.

CaféLitt is pen to all comments, suggestion and new ideas. CaféLitt provides an unparalleled opportunity for learning about culture, science and philosophy in a relaxed and friendly environment, and for sharing your knowledge and expertise with like-minded members of your community.

CafeLitt is a nonpartisan, nonreligious and nonpolitical entity.


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